Red


Posts: 238
Likes: 145
Member since: the start
Discord: Luckey#8744

This patch is a special patch; this patchnote is quite a bit longer than most of our other patchnotes - I spent a lot of time making these changes and I spent a lot of time recording these changes, all I ask is that you actually read it. I spent around 40 hours over the past 2 weeks making adjustments to every monster spawn in Cyntara. One of our big milestones for Cyntara v13 was to address spawn balance, but we decided to release the changes to the tail-end of Cyntara v12-s3 to allow for feedback prior to the launch of next season in the hope that we can address any issues that may arise as glaringly obvious.

A lot of the feedback and discussion in this thread was used alongside our killstats page to formulate these changes. Initially, my plan was to address (read: nerf) the "problem" spawns and cross my fingers that it would be enough. The previous "balance" between spawns was tried and true, for the best "balance", my initial plan was likely the correct way to go about the issue. However, from my own play testing from the past few seasons (yes, I do play a bit of Cyntara in my free time) I realized that there are a few things that make certain spawns feel "bad" even if they appear pretty balanced on paper.

A lot of tasks take a long time. There are two main factors that contribute to this:

Monsters have a lot of health.

Spawn density for a number of spawns is very low.

A number of spawns have a very poor layout; backtracking is time wasted.

There are a lot of sub-400 level spawns; players typically stay in this level range for less than an hour or so.

Knowing this, there are a very few spawns where "increase exp by 10%" was applicable. I felt that a better solution would be to adjust the health to experience ratio; less health per experience point earned means monsters are killed faster, tasks are completed more quickly, and more experience is gained. Increased respawn rate and increased spawn density help on both of these fronts as well, and an increased respawn rate was necessary for a large number of spawns due to the increase in players that Cyntara has been seeing in the past year. Decreasing the amount of backtracking necessary in a number of spawns will also make the gameplay of these spawns feel better; if there are any spawns that require more attention in this area, it will be addressed in the future - map changes are not my specialty and take a disproportionate amount of time for their value. Finally, with a large number of sub-400 level spawns, it meant that players were skipping a lot of usable content simply because by the time they get to explore these new areas, they're already to the next level range.

These changes ended up being less of a definitive "balancing" but more about creating a solid foundation for balancing in the future. We've built a very strong foundation in the past few years, this is an extension of that. I'm looking forward to any feedback and adjusting issues as they're reported.

So, in the famous words of Wood, these are the following spawn changes.


No Level Requirement

Rotworms

All rotworms now respawn in the presence of players.

Fix an issue where Anti Rotworms gave the same experience as Rotworms.

Coryms

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Increase spawn density.

Widen a lot of the pathways in the spawn, especially the pathways leading to the Beginner Quest reward.

Add more Corym Skirmishers and Vanguards.

Terror Birds

Increase spawn density.

Add more pathways to make the spawn more circular.

Level 50

Dwarves

Decrease health of both Dwarf Soldiers and Dwarf Guards; decreased experience (overall hp/exp ratio increased).

Remove elemental resists.

Increase spawn density.

Add more pathways to make the spawn more circular.

Widen a lot of the pathways in the spawn.

Made the spawn larger.

Nightstalkers

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease damage.

Adjust resists.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Level 100

Cyclops

Improve hp/exp ratio for all cyclops.

Adjust resists.

Increase respawn rate.

Increase spawn density.

Cultists

Improve hp/exp ratio for all cultists.

Decrease spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Level 150

Dragon Hatchlings

Increase exp.

Ice Golems

Remove ice immunity in favor of ice resist.

Decrease health.

Level 200

Crazed Beggars

Increase exp.

Increase spawn density.

Decrease attack damage.

Priestesses

Decrease damage.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Adjust resists.

Giant Spiders

No change.

Level 250

Elves

Adjust miscellaneous stats.

Squirrels

Improve exp/hp ratio.

Increase spawn density.

Djinns

Improve exp/hp ratio.

Decrease attack frequency for Marids & Efreets.

Decrease crowd control ability frequency for Marids & Efreets.

Decrease max summon count for Marids & Efreets.

Increase the number of Marids & Efreets.

Adjust the spawn entry position.

Water Elementals

Decrease entry level from 300 to 250.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Decrease all types of damage.

Adjust resists.

Decrease speed.

Increase health.

Remove self-healing.

Level 300

Dragons

Increase spawn density.

Pirates

Fix Pirate Buccaneer exp.

Increase Pirate Marauder exp.

Sea Serpents

Increase spawn density.

Level 350

Elementalists

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Servant Golems

No change.

Bog Raiders

No change.

Fire Devils

No change.

Rot Elementals

Decrease entry level from 400 to 350.

Increase respawn rate.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease all types of damage.

Decrease self-healing frequency.

Adjust resists.

Decrease speed.

Level 400

Quara

Decrease all quara speed.

Decrease Quara Mantassin health.

Increase Quara Mantassin invisibility cooldown.

Decrease Quara Constrictor health.

Improve hp/exp ratio for Quara Pincher.

Increase Quara Pincher damage.

Decrease self-healing chance for Quara Hydromancer.

Increase Quara Hydromancer experience.

Decrease Quara Predator health, damage, self-healing chance.

Dragon Lords

No change.

Frost Dragons

Decrease experience.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Decrease paralyze chance and strength.

Add self-healing ability.

Heroes

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease self-healing chance.

Change manadrain attack to physical attack.

Nightmares

No change.

Level 450

Royal Minions

No change.

Holy Bishops

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Behemoths

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Adjust self-healing interval and chance.

Remove a stray Behemoth from the Cyclops spawn.

Serpent Spawns

No change.

Deeplings

Decrease speed of all Deeplings.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Level 500

Black Knight Bosses

No change.

Hydras

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Lava Dragons

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Crystal Dragons

Increase respawn rate.

Eskimos

Increase entry level from 150 to 500.

Adjust stats to match a level 500 spawn.

Level 550

Wisps

Increase health.

Decrease chance and interval for invisibility.

Decrease paralyze strength, interval, and chance.

Decrease manadrain chance.

Remove elemental immunities.

Pyro Imps

Increase respawn rate.

Increase spawn density.

Werewolves

Add an entirely new spawn.

Increase creature density.

Increase respawn rate.

White Knights

Improve hp/exp ratio of both White Knights and White Warlords.

Decrease the number of attacks of both creatures.

Remove manadrain from both creatures.

Increase speed.

Adjust resists.

Glooth Elementals

Decrease entry level from 600 to 550.

Increase respawn rate.

Increase spawn density.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease all types of damage.

Decrease self-healing amount.

Adjust resists.

Decrease speed.

Level 600

Vampires

Increase entry level from 150 to 600.

Adjust stats to match a level 600 spawn.

Increase respawn rate.

Increase spawn density.

Yetis

Remove the Eskimo mini-task requirement to enter the spawn.

Decrease healing chance.

Yetis will no longer run at low health.

Golems

Improve hp/exp ratio of both Jammer and Combat Golems.

Adjust combat sequences for both golems to perform in their intended fashion.

Decrease the paralyze chance for Jammer golems.

Remove paralyze ability from Combat Golems.

Remove elemental immunity from both golems in favor of elemental resist.

Demon Sprouts

Improve hp/exp ratio.

AoE Paralyze ability now targets itself rather than the player.

The range for both Paralyze and Drunk abilities now have a maximum range of 3sqm.

Adjust resists.

Wyrms

Increase spawn density.

The spawn now loops around itself in more places.

Improve hp/exp ratio for both Wyrms and particularly Elder Wyrms.

Slightly decrease physical and holy resists for both.

Neither type of Wyrm will run at low health now.

Souleaters

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Level 650

Infernal Battlemages

Increase entry level from 600 to 650.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Decreased damage.

Decrease invisibility chance.

Decrease summon interval.

Warlocks

Increase entry level from 400 to 650.

Adjust stats to match a level 650 spawn.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease Paralyze strength, chance, and duration.

Decrease invisibility chance.

Adjust resists.

Ancient Scarabs

Increase entry level from 400 to 650.

Increase damage, exp, hp for Scarabs and Ancient Scarabs.

Adjust resists for Scarabs.

Level 700

Ghastly Dragons

No change.

Grim Reapers

Decrease self-healing chance.

Grim Reapers will no longer run at low health.

Mutated Toads

No change.

Level 750

Lancer Beetles

Increase entry level from 250 to 750.

Adjust stats to match a level 750 spawn.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Add more pathways to make the spawn more circular.

Drillworms

Increase entry level from 300 to 750.

Adjust stats to match a level 750 spawn.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Add more pathways to make the spawn more circular.

Crystal Spiders

Increase entry level from 350 to 750.

Adjust stats to match a level 750 spawn.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Abyss Necromancers

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease Possessed Hench damage.

Decrease self-healing frequency.

Drakens

Decrease health for all Lizards and Drakens.

Spirits Elementals

Decrease entry level from 800 to 750.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease all types of damage.

Decrease self-healing amount.

Adjust resists.

Decrease speed.

Level 800

Yielothax

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease self-healing chance.

Decrease invisibility chance.

Nightmayers

Decrease exp for both Nightmayers and Nightmayer Scions.

Nightmayer Scions will no longer run at low health.

Demi Liches

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Adjust resists for both Bonebeasts and Demi Liches.

Decrease self-healing chance for Demi Liches.

Swamp Lords

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Seacrest Serpents

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease self-healing.

Level 850

Outlaws

Increase entry level from 800 to 850.

Increase respawn rate.

Increase spawn density.

Improve hp/exp ratio for both Executioners and Robens.

Decrease Robens speed.

Ogres

Increase entry level from 800 to 850.

Insectoids

Decrease entry level from 900 to 850.

Increase respawn rate.

Improve hp/exp ratio for all Insectoids.

Level 900

Demons

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Undead Dragons

Increase respawn rate.

Increase spawn density.

Legendary Warriors

Move back to their old spawn.

Increase respawn rate.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Decrease self-healing chance.

Mad Mages

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Decrease self-healing chance, resists, and remove elemental immunities in favor of resists for both Mad Mages and Raging Mages.

Level 950

Flying Books

Increase experience for all monsters in this area.

Shadow Dragons

Increase respawn rate.

Ice Miners

Adjust the difference between the hp/exp ratios of Ice Miners and Mine Supervisors.

Level 1000

Minotaur Cultists

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Decrease melee damage of all Minotaurs.

Adjust resists for all Minotaurs.

Decrease the invisibility chance for Minotaur Cult Prophet.

Lycanthropes

Increase spawn density.

Increase respawn rate.

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Forbidden Temple

No change.

Arid Plateau

Improve hp/exp ratio of all monsters.

Decrease Paralyze chance for both Thawed Chomper and Dread Stalker.

Adjust resists of all monsters.

Mind Flayers

Improve hp/exp ratio.

Level 1000, Rebirth 1

Blighted Grotto

Improve hp/exp ratio of Blighted Hydra/Raider.

Decrease strength of Blighted Hydra/Raider.

Decrease Paralyze chance of Blighted Hydra.

Feyrist Meadows

Decrease strength and improve hp/exp ratio of Weakend Frazzlemaws and Enfeebled Silencers.

Nightmare Ruins

Decrease strength and improve hp/exp ratio of Horrid Nightmares and Withered Gladiators.

Old Fortress

Decrease melee strength of all monsters.

Level 1000, Rebirth 2

Demonborn Valley

Adjust hp/exp ratio for all monsters.

Decrease base Platinum Coin drop rate for all monsters.

Adjust loot drop chance for various items for all monsters.

Primordial East / West

Decrease melee strength of all monsters except Sight of Surrender.

Improve hp/exp ratio of all monsters.

Decrease Paralyze range and duration for Retching Horrors.

Decrease Silence duration for Silencers.

Decrease Paralyze chance and increase Paralyze cooldown for Guzzlemaws.

Decrease manadrain chance for Guzzlemaws.

Level 1000, Rebirth 3

Demon Jail

Decrease melee strength of all monsters.

Improve hp/exp ratio of all monsters.

Primordial Prison

Decrease melee strength of all monsters.

Improve hp/exp ratio of all monsters.

Level 1000, Rebirth 4

Catacombs

Decrease melee strength of all monsters.

Improve hp/exp ratio of all monsters.


Quests

Dragon's Den Quest

Decrease the number of Dragons and Dragon Lords in favor of hatchlings.

Four Swords Quest

Require level 600 to enter the Cyntara Castle area.

Adjust all stats of Cyntara King and Cyntara Queen to better fit the level requirement of the area.

All-Around Quest

Adjust the monsters that spawn in different areas of the quest to match the quest's level requirement.

Players can now expect to find monsters within the level 200-400 range.

Spectral Awakening Quest

Spectral Dragon experience decreased.


Miscellaneous

Add a number of missing creatures to Boosted Creature rolls.

Fix a number of misclassified Boosted Creature roll creature difficulties.

Remove a number of the formerly low-level creatures from the badass creature list (this system will hopefully be revamped in the future anyway).

Add a number of missing creatures to Prey Tasks.

Fix a number of misclassified Prey Task creature difficulties.

Fix an issue where stat dampening was not applying to Blue Widow, Nomis, and Zhualxykul.

Players that submit feedback for these spawn changes are eligible for a special reward at the start of Cyntara v13.

Red

#1951 Reply

Ujio Katsumoto


Posts: 3
Likes: 1
Member since: v12-s3

I replied earlier but it seems like i did something wrong cause i dont see the post, so here i go again:

Excelent news, very good work, it seems like it required a lot of time invested but thats very good cause it means that you keep improving this great server.
I cant wait to try this new rebalanced spawns, they seem to be more balanced now, i will post further to inform how the spawns are feeling but they should be much better now.
Greetings!!

#1952 Reply

Tactyx


Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Member since: v7
Discord: matt_tactyx#0

So far everything seems better. I like the adjustments from so many low level spawns to more mid-high level spawns.
The exp/hp ratio changes will be a nice boost as well.
I was finally able to complete the Wyrms task!

I'll continue to explore, experiment and provide feedback.
Thanks

#1953 Reply

Tatiania


Posts: 3
Likes: 1
Member since: v11

hydra spawn needs to bee a lil bit biger its only 1 or 2 mobs in a lil room and its slow compaired to its size its like the smallets map i have visited so far

#1954 Reply

Trith


Posts: 315
Likes: 117
Member since: v6
Discord: Trith#1471

Holy shit y’all really went above and beyond, can’t wait to test all this shit out!

#1955 Reply

Shunuck


Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Member since: the start
Discord: Hyuara#9683

Before I say anything, I just want to applaud you for your hard work Chan.

I didn't get a ton of time to test everything. I mostly ran through the spawns to check for density changes and what not, didn't get to test hp/exp ratio too much. Some preliminary thoughts:

- The increase to spawn density & respawn rate in the spawns is immensely welcomed. Thank you so, so much for this.
- The new werewolf map, love it.
- I'm personally still not a fan of the vampire's map, but the increase in spawn density should help them out a bit.
- Most of the 800+ spawns seem pretty balanced from rough testing. I finally feel like I can actually pick between most of the spawns, they feel competitive now. One odd thing I noticed however:
Demons and Undead Dragons: Both spawns start at lv900. However, undead dragons seem to hit harder than demons, although demons have about 2x as much HP and give about 2x the amount of exp. Perhaps demons could benefit from a slight damage boost, or undead drags could benefit from a slight damage nerf (the former might be better). I tested both of these monsters on my ED, only taking on 1 at a time.
- The LW map hit me in all sorts of places. Can't hold all these nostalgic feels.
- Demonborn Valley might still need it's loot reduced a bit.

That's it for now. Once I get more time to test thoroughly, I'll provide more feedback. Do you have any specific questions you'd like to ask or would you like anything specific tested? Again, huge, huge thank you Chan. I love what I see so far.

#1956 Reply

Queen Sirgdrifa


Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Member since: v12-s3

Hi. Very good work on changes. For now i'll wait for the final Cyntara. U have a lot of material for Cyntara let of be OT and be "Cyntara" the Game. Don't forget in any moment. I believe in you. I Hope you.

#1957 Reply

Trith


Posts: 315
Likes: 117
Member since: v6
Discord: Trith#1471

Two thingsl

1. You can't get out of demonbrone valley anymore (exit portal busted0

2. Abyss necros got some nutty hp like 10 mill? seems a bit excessive for 400k exp

#1958 Reply

Red


Posts: 238
Likes: 145
Member since: the start
Discord: Luckey#8744

First, I'd like to thank every person that has responded to this thread thus far and doubly those that have taken time to test these changes in the off-season.

This was one of the main points of feedback I was hoping to hear about - more easily completed tasks - thank you! I look forward to your feedback.

There were only a select few spawns that I did not touch at all. However, spawn density and respawn rate was a big adjustment for almost all spawns. By glancing over the Hydras spawn I can see why this spawn likely feels bad now. I'm reluctant to adjust the map too much because PvP was a huge consideration for the map itself. However, I'd definitely like to see an increased spawn density and respawn rate; I've increased both for next patch/season and look forward to hearing how Hydras feel after the new changes!

Thank you, Shunuck. Your detailed spawn feedback was invaluable in my decision to adjust the spawn density and respawn rate, so I'd like to thank you.

I'm aware that you addressed the map for Vampires specifically and searched our cached map pool for something else more fitting for them but was unsuccessful. To replace their map (which I'm more than willing to do) I'll likely require some map help.

A lot of monsters can be adjusted freely as they're niche to their spawn; Demons & Undead Dragons do not like this as both are very iconic and ubiquitous monsters. I will make a note to look at them in comparison to hopefully reach a middle ground. The idea is that each monster is very strong but has a different strategy to take them down the best way possible. Anyway, give me some time, I'll update this thread and my original post with my conclusion.

The decision for this change came from our experience over the past few years. Innovations and features are the future, but if we're removing features that players unanimously love, then who is this game really for?

I'd really appreciate if you could be more specific as to why. My initial thought is that a lot of the valuables dropped by the monsters in this spawn are redundant and thus, still add up to being very profitable. However, I'd like to see what others think.

I wish that I could be more specific. Almost everything has changed; the more fine-toothed comb analysis that can be done the better.

1. This is likely an issue between our v12-s3 branch and our v13 branch. Unfortunately, only 99% of our changes can be staged through Git and some finer details are lost until we make the final transition from one working branch to another. We can hotpatch it after each restart but this should not be an issue in v13.
2. I was curious when I noticed that their hp/exp ratio was quite different from a lot of the other creatures in this level range but decided against hastily making adjustments because the kill count wasn't too low. (Abyss Necromancers appear in a number of places so their kill count will likely be higher by default but still, a number of players still decided to hunt them above other creatures that were mostly ignored.) Perhaps a simple hp/exp ratio reduction would make the "flow" of the monster fit better with the other monsters in this this level group (believe it or not, this is a buff).

To address a few responses on Discord:
I did not mention that monsters that had their level requirement buffed did not receive much (if any) loot or spawn quest adjustments. In reality, I could have had this finished but it would have pushed these changes back another week or two. For the tail-end of the off-season, I didn't feel that the benefit of making these changes "complete" was worth more than the feedback that you guys could provide us prior to v13. To be entirely honest, this is very low priority based on the spawn feedback we've received in the past. As far as v13 goes, we have a lot of large features that we want to include, and this is marked as "nice to have".

No, not necessarily. Legendary Warriors stats have remained mostly unchanged since they were released around a decade ago. Cyntarists have gotten quite a bit stronger in this amount of time.

I appreciate the feedback that everyone has provided so far. I don't think I can express how much it means to me that you guys are this invested in seeing Cyntara succeed in future seasons. As long as you guys love Cyntara we promise to give this our all.

Red

#1959 Reply

Trith


Posts: 315
Likes: 117
Member since: v6
Discord: Trith#1471

@red

I get that it needs to be changed but it just seems off compared to every other monster. Atm it appears they have about 3x the hp of a demon but give 1/3rd the exp. and Demons as shunuck said, are known to be tankier than most monsters and give less exp.

I was one of the players who used to hunt them ritually earlier this era and they were and still are one of my favorite monsters on cyntara so it just hurts to see them hit this hard.

Just a rough guess but IMO even halving their hp and keeping their current exp idk if theyd be viable on the current Cyntara, Since CYntara atm HEAVILY favors AoE hunting making it even more important to keep the few remaining single target monsters viable.

#1960 Reply